At around 5:30 a.m. Friday, UCPD officers detained 18 Occupy Cal protesters at their encampment outside of Doe Library, campus officials said.
The protesters have not yet decided upon a future course of action in the aftermath of the detainments. Seven student and 11 nonstudent protesters were told that “camping and lodging on campus is against university policy and state law” and left peacefully after being detained and identified by the police, according to UCPD Lt. Marc DeCoulode. None were cited or arrested, he said.
Eleven of the protesters were given a stay-away order for seven days, and 10 of the encampment’s 13 tents are currently in police custody, according to Claire Holmes, campus associate vice chancellor for public affairs.
According to DeCoulode, campus administrators ordered the police action after Occupy protesters did not respond to UCPD’s daily warnings that they would be cited if they did not leave. The protesters originally began the encampment Feb. 9 on the steps outside of Sproul Hall and subsequently moved to the steps outside of Doe Library Tuesday.
“The reason we protest in the form of an encampment is because it provides a safe space where dialogue and the marriage of ideas can occur,” said UC Berkeley senior Navid Shaghagi.
Occupy Cal protesters met on the steps outside of Sproul Hall at 2 p.m. Friday to regroup and discuss their course of action moving forward. While continued encampment was discussed, a decision was not reached, said UC Berkeley senior Frank Luna.
According to Holmes, while the campus administration’s approach to responding to campus protests has evolved, there is no policy in place that explicitly dictates how to manage them. Since the Nov. 9 protest events, two encampments at UC Berkeley — the encampment that dispersed Friday morning and one that took place inside the Anthropology Library — have not involved arrests.
“No two protests are alike, so we are always looking to respond to context specific protests or demonstrations and work to respond in a way that is appropriate to the seriousness of the disruption,” Holmes said in an email.
She added that administrators led by Executive Vice Chancellor and Provost George Breslauer and Vice Chancellor for Administration and Finance John Wilton have been brought together to form a protest management group, which has met on an ad hoc basis since early January.
Staff writer Christopher Yee contributed to this report.
Correction(s):
A previous version of this article incorrectly stated that 17 protesters were detained. In fact, 18 were detained.
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affirmative action doesn’t create racial tension. racists create racial tension.
The racists are the ones pushing affirmative action.
“At about 5:30 a.m. Friday, UCPD officers detained 18 Occupy Cal protesters at their encampment outside of Doe Library”
The early bird gets the worm, I always say. I bet these unemployed hippies were shocked to find out that some people actually get up that early in the morning.
The discorce here is disturbing. If you disagree with someone thats fine but attacking their intelligence or hygiene seems like juvenile internet foolishnesses.
AMEN!
[Ok, but in the meantime, those 50 people don't have a job, and the
social welfare system does not provide enough for them to live on. Many
of them lost their jobs because of the wealth destroyed by high risk
lending practices of the banks]
Oh, bullshit. Stop blaming “the banks” and “the millionaires” for every problem in the world, you’re sounding like a whiny child.
Wow. Some one seriously needs a life de SD
How’s that? I gotta babysit some techs installing IT gear for a few hours on the weekend, so I can’t stray far from the office. You got a problem with me posting or what?
Thank you for serving as a lackey of the homeless and the professional agitators. They really appreciate your service.
I have read enough of his posts to know he’s not a lackey. He’s just being critical of the fact I posted quite a bit yesterday, on account I had to be in the office.
“What happens when college education is so expensive that you aren’t able to hire people with the skills to work for you?”
You’re clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, given that you’re demonstrably incapable of learning anything that doesn’t conform to your silly simplistic world view. The reason California has a financial crisis is twofold. #1, there’s no sense of fiscal responsibility among the politicians and bureaucrats who run this state. #2, jobs AND taxpayers leave this state because California has effectively driven them off with high taxes, excessive regulation, and a legal environment that is plain loony, and tilted to those who know how to game the system (i.e. lawyers, politicians, and professional activists). There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of former Californians, many of them middle-class and upper-middle-class taxpayers, who are simply fed up and won’t ever come back. Meanwhile, truly idiotic ideas such as sanctuary cities and the Nightmare Act provide cash incentives for illegals (who cost more in social services than they will ever pay in taxes) to come here in their place. In effect, the net PRODUCERS are being driven off in preference to the net CONSUMERS in terms of state services required per tax dollars.
It’s ironic how lefties love to blather about environmental “sustainability” but have NO idea as to what constitutes ECONOMIC sustainability. The current situation in California is simply unsustainable, yet you left-leaning types want to accelerate the process that got us here in the first place. You simply have NO clue what’s going on around you, yet you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.
“Tuition increases have everything to do with privatization. ”
Wawawa, you are clearly ignorant, and throwing around terms without any understanding of what they mean. Tuition increased have NOTHING to do with “privatization”, and everything to do with the fact that the state of California is BROKE. Really now, what part of “fiscal crisis” do you NOT understand?
“When politicians refuse to raise revenue for fear of electoral and
corporate retribution, when they state won’t divert money from a prison
system to an education system, when the prison system holds mostly drug
dealers, who deal only because they can’t find a job that pays them
enough to support themselves and their families”
If you had the a modicum of intellectual curiosity and the ability to research the facts for yourself, you would know that 3/5 of the population in the California prison system is there due to convictions for violent felonies, NOT for dealing drugs, which is more likely to be a federal penalty if such activity is carried across state lines. But then again, you’re not interested in facts, but willing to believe all the nonsense that your left-leaning handlers stuff in that small skull of yours. And you wonder why nobody takes you Occupy Cal types seriously? Most of you are a bunch of ignorant, ill-informed children, mindlessly repeating all the nonsense fed to you without an iota of critical thinking.
You really need to get with the program, unless you wish to continue making a fool of yourself in front of your student peers.
“Funny, I work 70 hours a week and still find an hour per week with a therapist.”
Maybe you should cut back to 68 hours a week and schedule a couple more hours with the therapist – sounds like you could use the help if you’re deluded into thinking camping out with a bunch of homeless types is going to solve anything.
@Occupy Cal Student: You guys saved the Anthro library? Oh, goodness. You guys were mere pawns, a distraction from the real reasons it wasn’t open all hours. Please do not think you are entitled to a 24/7 library on campus.
The California master plan for education failed miserably. It was meant to provide free education for all. That was before everybody came to Cali.
If you are “fighting to reduce our tuition,” not gonna happen. It will keep going up while those at the top vote themselves raises while class offerings dwindle and class sizes increase.
You say you are “fighting for our rights on campus such as freedom to speak our mind,” and that you “held a safe space for dialogue and inclusion,” but this already exists everywhere on campus.
If you guys build a community at a location where you pay rent, you’ll have hella-less problems. Squatting won’t getcha any respect.
”If you guys build a community at a location where you pay rent, you’ll
have hella-less problems. Squatting won’t getcha any respect.”
And here’s the beef I have with many of those Occupy Cal protesters. As you and others have pointed out, most of these individuals are neither the students themselves or the taxpayers footing the bill. They demand that everyone accommodate their whims and desires while having no real skin in the game themselves. I will strongly disagree with many Cal students but acknowledge that they have the right to exercise their free speech/assembly rights on campus, provided they don’t engage in illegal or confrontational tactics in the course of such speech/assembly. OTOH, these professional outside agitators have NO business being on campus, and should have had any permission to step on UC property revoked a long time ago based on the fact that their intent and purpose is to disrupt the education of genuine students.
@ Occupy Cal Student: First of all, I have approached and spoken with hundreds of occupiers myself. Good for you for volunteering at a food bank–much respect (I do the same). But face it–higher ed in California is slowly sliding down the shitter. It just is not clear to me how camping in front of a library will save higher ed.
If you really want to make an impact, here is what I propose: Get all students, and I mean ALL, to take an entire semester–the SAME semester–off. Imagine fall 2012, absolutely ZERO students enroll. That would show campuses that its the students that matter; they could no longer victimize students for their money. Could you imagine the effect this would have?
I agree with your cause; I just disagree with your tactics.
Dear Occupy Cal Student,
There is no point in responding to any of the snide remarks of the trollers on this article. There are trollers everywhere, and just as there were only a small percentage of students involved in this encampment at any given time, there are also a small percentage of trollers involved in this comment thread. Do not give them the satisfaction of a point of debate — their point of contention comes from the inability to access their freedom of speech in a public setting, rather only harvesting the ability within themselves to troll online. The information age is here and has been and they do not know how to communicate in any other fashion.
The students and others occupying the campus are doing something right. The sun sets on the American empire every dusk, however, the metropolis of waste and riches never sleeps. There is not much to do other than be persistent. Remember: sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never estrange me.
Let me tell you something, you moron: I began waxing vicious about how pissed I was about the occupiers moving to Doe, and when a particular occupier tried to engage me in conversation I said exactly what you’re saying, which is that they (occupiers) don’t deserve a conversation. How alike you and I are in that sense (that’s another thing he pointed out: how terribly alike we were).
You can sit there and dismiss everyone who opposes you as a troll, or you can attempt to win over hearts and minds. Some of your ilk just badmouth (true of both sides), but then there are a handful who can pierce through. It takes talent, finesse, and maybe a little bit of openmindedness.
I’m not saying I’m won over to anything. I will say you’re about as bad as the worst of us “trolls.”
Glad to see your still here Mr Saturday Night :)
I enjoyed sitting on sproul yesterday afternoon after work, waiting patiently with my sign. As I sat there, a tour group of high school kids came through as inquired about my sign which read “Mr. Saturday Night – Let’s Talk” so i told them briefly of our exchange and the open invitation for discussion.
I went on to explain to them that although I am an occupant, my goal is not to tear down the system he have, but to rebuild the broken bits, reestablish direct communication within our own communities and get to know one another after so many decades of willful apathy.
A sea of smiles appeared before me. They understood.
Wish you could have been on the steps with me to share that.
I still say it’s dumb, Steven. But if you’ve got to do this, then make a point to distance yourself from those spoiled, spineless black bloc fucktards. And for fuck’s sake, when the cops come to tear you a rightfully deserved new one get the fuck out of there, or you’re NOT worth talking to. Make no mistake, though, I don’t give a fuck one way or the other.
In response your comments on the black bloc crowd, i personally have issues with their tactics as well. I have successfully avoided getting arrested for the actions of those who are looking for a fight and hope to never seen the inside of a cell for something i do not believe in.
In my personal experience, there are individuals who consider themselves black bloc and completely miss the point of the groups original purpose. the BB group as i understand it was created as a sort of urban defense line, which would act as a shield against obvious acts of police brutality and injustice. Sadly there are those that fail to understand the concept of a shield and lash out at the police and cause an otherwise one sided case of brutality into a violent conflict where neither side is right anymore.
I heard the old rule “we will never start a fight, but we will finish one” tossed around among circles. This made me cautious and i actively distanced myself from it. Although I personally feel the quote has merit in one on one conflicts…in a display of civil disobedience its not a a wise stance.
Now Mr. S, seeing as i have no intention of getting arrested for anything in the near future (it would be rather difficult to explain to my employer that i didn’t show for work because i was in jail.) I hope we can continue a discussion.
You caution me to not make a mistake in assuming you care either way, but i dare say you do care. Perhaps only in the capacity that you don’t want to continue having to see Occupy new articles such as this one.
I would like to think that maybe you have the ability to see issues from multiple angles much like myself. Otherwise, why the advice to avoid arrest? why not let me hang myself? Is it because, despite the flaws and fuckups of the Occupy Movement, part of you agrees that action must be taken. You don’t have to admit any truths to me, but eventually you will have to decide for yourself where your head and your heart lay on the issues.
Indifference and apathy will be the end of us.
Fascist thinking that you believe anyone who does not share your beliefs is a mere troll.
”There is no point in responding to any of the snide remarks of the trollers on this article.”
Those of us who point out our objections to the tactics and/or stated intentions 0f the Occupy Cal participants are not “trolls”. We are individuals who have genuine philosophical differences. Seems to me that the environment of Political Correctness in which you operate has never provided you with the tools to deal with people whose opinions you find objectionable, much less given you the ability to think for yourself.
Keep in mind that unless your goal is to become one of those pathetic camp followers referred to as “Berkeley activists” upon your graduation/expulsion/washout from Cal, you’re going to have to go out in the real world, where not everyone is going to feed your narcissistic supply by showering you with praise and adulation for dedicating your life to (often pointless and counterproductive) protest. Better get used to criticism – the real world is full of it.
The reason you have been called “trolls” is not because your political views differ from others’ but because you express yourselves with unbelievable cruelty behind the veil of the internet. It’s never a sincere conversation with the Daily Cal Commenting Club.
Your intentions mean nothing. Your actions are an embarrassment.
Get a life, and stop being a pest.
When I saw the steps of Doe Library clear of vermin this morning, I breathed a sigh of relief.
Few will miss the filthy hippies that polluted the outside of the library.
Please tell us about what these “vermin” did to you personally? I can see from your sigh of relief that what ever they did to you must be extremely terrible! Perhaps they increased your tuition so that you would be enslaved to the banks who gave you student loans? Maybe they decreased your exposure to a diverse demography of students and ideas that are part of getting a world class education? Or just maybe they forced you to buy expensive books that you can hardly pay for while not even providing you 24/7 to your library which you could study your needed book in without having to pay a cent!
Yes if they did any of that to you then they must really be “vermin.” Good thing we have UC Regents who are major share holders in the very banks who give us student loans and get a cut from every loan given out! Good thing we have big publishing companies who make millions of dollars off of poor college students. Thank goodness for an administration that shuts down libraries just because they are a drain on how much profit they could make if they saved the money. These are the people we should whole heartedly entrust to get rid of the “vermin!”
That’s right. Vermin. Glad you agree. 7 students. Out of what- 30,000 students on campus, you fools can get 7 to support you.
Yeah, you win. Right.
Occupy assholes, don’t let the door hit your asses on your way out.
expel the students. send all of them to county jail. next time don’t be so gentle.
GO UCPD !!!!!
All because they want you to pay less tuition and be less in debt when you graduate? This is what you wish upon people who want you to be free of debt when you graduate so you can have a better life?
What I wish is you to realize that if only 7 students out of 30,000 are there, there IS NO SUPPORT FOR YOU. Be gone, vermin.
I support them 100% but was not there. I am overwhelmed with my work right now, do not want to sleep in the cold, and am concerned about being arrested. That few were there means that there are few brave and committed enough to social justice to radically change their daily routines to fight privatization.
And I know about 500 people who feel the same way (support Occupy, but just not ready to commit on that level), about 20 of whom would have been there with them if this weren’t also a particularly stressful time of the semester for them.
I think it’s pretty disengenuous for you to argue that lack of visible support is an indication of lack of support, more generally. The Occupy tactic is radical, unfamiliar, and uncomfortable for many people. I’m among those who support it but are not quite ready to throw myself into it. I’m trying to figure out how to strike a balance between my personal aspirations and commitments, and my sense of collective responsibility fighting for social justice.
This is not easy.
Yet you chose the path of not associating with vermin. Good job!
[That few were there means that there are few brave and committed enough to social justice]
It’s easy to be “brave” when you realize there are no serious repercussions, and to be “committed” when you are neither a student nor have any other real responsibilities such as regular employment.
[ to radically change their daily routines to fight
privatization. ]
The increases in student tuition have NOTHING to do with “privatization”, nor in all likelihood do you have any idea what the term means, or you wouldn’t be referring to it here. The vast majority of you Occupy people are merely parrots, chanting your mantras and going through the actions because you seek attention and can’t get it through more productive activities. This behavior, as well as your penchant to seek physical confrontation with law enforcement and break things, are the reason that most serious Cal students (who are engaged in far more important and ultimately more productive activities) want nothing to do with you.
[The Occupy tactic is radical, unfamiliar, and uncomfortable for many people.]
Not at all to those of us who spent time in Europe in the 1980′s and saw the various radical fringe mobs whose stated cause du jour (nuclear disarnament, squatter’s rights, pro-environment) might change, but whose motivation (anarcho-marxism) was consistent.
Tuition increases have everything to do with privatization. A good is privatize when its production is paid for by only those who use it. It is public when its production is paid for by not only those who use it, but also those who benefit from others having used it. Think of the benefit we all receive when more people get a college education, thus generating more innovative people, who can create value in the economy, thus incentivizing businesses to hire more people, thus reducing the number of people who need to rely on illegal activities to earn a living, reducing the public cost of policing criminal activity.
Because there has been a reduction in public money — tax revenue — to subsidize the education of students, there has been a concomitant increase in the proportion of the cost of education born by students. When education is decreasingly paid for by the public, and increasingly paid for only by those who use it — students — this is privatization. The state could choose to increase revenues and continue to subsidize higher education, and it could choose to divert money from supporting the prison system to continue subsidizing public education. Instead it has done neither. It has chosen to allow students to pay for their own educations, despite the fact that we all benefit from their being educated. This is privatization.
Please quit the self-righteous bullshit. You are only fooling yourself.
Ditto.
funny how occupy fungi’ always pops up again,eh?
Beat them with sticks!!!!
Funny as hell, twelve comments thus far and not ONE in support of the campers.
They were the 99%…
This is a student newspaper, and the vast majority of occupiers were not students. There is no student support for this cause on campus.
That is not true! First of there are always more students than non-students at encampments. This was one particular night where many of the students were taking a break from having been out there for a week, or had midterms on Friday and were studying. The administration saw this opportunity and raided the encampment in order to draw comments like yours from people. Always see the bigger picture my friend.
Also, many of the non-students were students of Berkeley City College, out of state scholars who are here on exchange programs. Non-student doesn’t mean non UC affiliate (which includes faculty, staff, etc.)
7 students out of 30,000? Yeah, tell me again how much support you got.
Right, because I’m sure you’re totally against every cause with which you aren’t visibly associated.
Seven students decided to associate with professional agitators and malcontents. Everyone else decided not to associate themselves with filth.
Dear Berkeley residents who are interrupting my education,
Get off my campus.
Protest somewhere else in Berkeley – there are plenty of places you can do this – and let those of us who are here to learn go about our business.
Your? campus.
Yes, “their” campus, you dickwad. Students come from all over to concentrate on their studies for a fuckload of reasons. And if you, like me, are a Berkeley resident (or in my case, lifelong native), you’ll show some respect for our guests. And aren’t you one of those assholes who can be heard going “whose university? OUR university!” Fucking hypocrite.
Do students a favor and fuck off.
Please share with us how these protests have gotten in your way personally! No general statements of any sort; give us a specific harm to your education that has resulted from protesters who are fighting to reduce your tuition!!!
They aren’t fighting to reduce anyone’s tuition. They have no plan, other than to be attention-seeking pests.
And how do you know that? Have you talked to any of them in person?
Who would want to be close to a smelly hippie?
Who would waste time engaging with a pathetic troll, sitting in his mother’s basement in his dirty underwear?
[Who would waste time engaging with a pathetic troll, sitting in his mother's basement in his dirty underwear?
It looks like you just did.
Excuse me, child, but I learned a long time ago not to waste my time reasoning with lunatics. Not only does it produce nothing of value but the urge to slap one or two of them upside the head is just too tempting…
I would love to see the number of hours spent by the cleaning crews or judicial affairs staff or police department that have all had extra work to do specifically related to the occupy protests. Either they are getting paid extra (which amounts to the need for increased tuition to pay for it, which hurts all students), or there is other work that isn’t being done (which ultimately hurts all students).
If the students want to protest, so be it, that is their right as tuition-paying members of the campus. But the non-students have many other places they can go to protest.
Seriously! I had to walk through those tents on my way to Doe today — and when I got inside, I just couldn’t concentrate. The thought of all…those…tents. I took a walk around the library to clear my mind, called my mom, but when I was on the phone with her, all I could say was occupy tent tent occupy occupy.
Finally, several hours later, I was able to regain my equanimity, and I started reading. I was doing great. Really made some good progress. Decided that since it was a nice day, I’d move outside.
But I’d forgotten about the tents.
The second I stepped outside, the book in my hand set on fire. Just exploded in my face right there. One of the girls by the tents ran up to me and tweaked my nipple, while another kept yelling, “Down with everything! Stop studying! Antelopes.”
Don’t believe me? You can ask anyone. Occupy is interrupting my education at every moment. Even as I type this, I don’t even remember what I’m majoring in. Don’t know what I had for dinner. Don’t remember whether a probit function is used for left or right-censored data. Losing my mind.
The stench of the homeless and the idiots who sleep with them overpower the senses, causing temporary disorientation.
Totally. Those homeless people with their $400 tents they use for hiking and camping to take a break from their studies. What an awful smell, those homeless people living in the dorms when they’re not engaging in protest. Awful.
Awful are those homeless and their enablers.
Really? 11 aren’t students? NO SH*T! Prosecute them for tresspassing and to the full extent of the law
Seems like college is really opening up your mind. ”People different than me? Somewhere close by? REMOVE THEM!!!! FAST!!!”
Assholes who disrupt students’ learning should fuck off.
Students feeling “disrupted” by the presence of tents near the library should seek counseling.
Professional agitators and malcontents need to get a psychiatric evaluation.
Students in real majors don’t have time to seek counseling
Funny, I work 70 hours a week and still find an hour per week with a therapist.
Funnier, I work 71 hours a week and therefore have no time to waste.
You just seem so starved for attention. Why don’t you just put on a dress, go into the city (SF), and lip-synch to “I Will Survive” in some bar somewhere, which is what most of the narcissistic queens in the Bay Area do when they are starved for attention and need to make a scene?
Wawaweewa is so starved for attention? But I believe it is you Mr. Tony M who sits in front of your computer for hours writing hateful comments about people you don’t know, on a college newspaprer site. Seriously, do you have a life? Because all I’m seeing is your hate being spouted over the safety of the internet. Why don’t you grow up. When you have any moral ground to stand on, then come back here and shout your ignorance and close mindedness.
you should check out his comments on the sex blog here. he loves talking to college girls about their sex lives.
From the mouth of the guy who likes to talk about “change” to homeless people inside his tent. To each his own.
wow, the administration finally got a clue.
it only took them two years of continuously fucking up before coming to their senses.
Their encampment was “raided”?! That is a RAID?!!! Whiney drama queens.
Wow. Occupy folded pretty quickly. Way to stand up for your rights!
We haven’t folded! We saved the anthropology library the first week. Organized coffee, food and rids for those who had been unlawfully been arrested for simply wanting the right to have free speech the second week. Build amazing art work which hundreds of folks enjoyed as they stopped by and took pictures with during on Sproul the third week. And held a safe space for dialogue and inclusion for the fourth week of the semester.
Have we folded? I’d say we have just began! Watch what we do next which will be really soon!!! And remember: we have creativity on our side; while our opposers only have brute force and bad language!
The sentiments, at least, were well meaning. Glad there were no arrests or citations. Whether or not it was the best way to do it, you’ve definitely made some ripples in the pond. Now it’s time to get back to kicking some ass over there in engineering, eh? There are bridges waiting to be built.
-Mr. Saturday Night.
I’m glad they removed these mentally-challenged morons. But the UC administrators probably opted from the notion to let them embarrass themselves for a few days under the rubric of: “Leave ‘em alone and they’ll go home, wagging their sorry asses behind them.” What the UC finally realized was that Occupy’s asses were their brains…
These “mentally-challenged morons” are fighting for your rights on campus such as the freedom to speak your mind as you have here. These
“mentally-challenged morons” ask for polite an productive dialog with everyone so that public education can be saved as public rather further privatized via more fee hikes. These
“mentally-challenged morons” love you even though your words are harsh and unfriendly and would be willing to have a dialog with you when ever you can spare a few minutes of your time.
[These "mentally-challenged morons" are fighting for your rights on campus such as the freedom to speak your mind as you have here.]
Sorry, but Cal students don’t need a bunch of low-IQ unemployable squatters to “fight” for their free speech rights. You and your ilk are an embarrassment. Go away, get a job, and get a life.
I’m an engineering student at cal and will probably get a higher paying job than you when I graduate. Yet I want you to not have to deal with debt after college as well because you are an important part of our society as any other person is. I invite you to stop by next time and talk to us. No need to tell us who you are just have a dialogue with us and if you really find us to be low-IQ then educate us.
Your self-righteousness is showing again:
“I will probably get a higher paying job than you when I graduate.” Your camping is not saving the world. If you really want to help, why don’t you volunteer at a homeless center or a food bank. Oh yeah, because camping is more fun, that’s why.
Actually I do volunteer at a food bank. Thank you for your suggestion though.
And the reason I brought up the line you quoted above was to show that I (as well as the rest of the folks out there) are not homeless, jobless individuals. In fact many of us are very educated people who are trying to preserve public education so those who come after us can use it too. Had you approached us and talked to us you would have seen that for yourself.
There is a student who is working on his PhD in DNA encoding and does research on cures for cancer. There is a PhD student out there who studies epidemics. There is a research faculty in physics which works at the Berkeley labs right up the hill.
And yes, there are a ton more of amazing students in different social science majors.
Come talk to us next time and hopefully we can learn a lot from each other.
Engineering students don’t have time to go camping and sleep with the homeless.
It isn’t easy. But it is the right thing to do. It means I can’t go to parties
and do a lot of the fun things I would do in my spare time like I used to my freshman, sophomore, and junior years . But I have found something more valuable than all of that. I have found people with real interest in the betterment of us all.
come try it out with us sometime and judge it for your self then.
Tony, let’s say there are 100 job that pay enough to live on for every 150 people who need them. What should those 50 people do when they don’t have a job?
Maybe those 50 people should get a clue, and stop voting for those politicians who drove off their jobs in the first place thanks to their stupid policies. Take California as an example. This state continues to spend money on various boondoggles, including a horribly-misnamed DREAM ACT that will take taxpayer money intended for YOUR undergraduate education and spend it on illegal aliens. This outrage, in addition to high taxes and a frustrating regulatory environment, are among the reasons businesses (and the jobs associated with those businesses) have been moving out of state for decades. The high taxes, scarcity of jobs, and the overall cost of living are the reason that millions of Californian businesses AND workers have moved to Nevada, Arizona, Texas, and even Utah.
If you were a grown adult who held any semblance of a middle-class job, you would know relatives, friends, and former neighbors who have moved out of state for those very same reasons (in fact, my own company is considering relocating to the Las Vegas area, and I won’t complain, given that between no state income taxes and a reduced cost of living, I will be able to keep another $1000-1100/month of my own money). Unfortunately, most of the people you probably get your information from are either government employees (your professors) or people who aren’t even gainfully employed and/or sucking off the taxpayer’s dime (professional activists) who benefit from this situation, so in all likelihood you have no idea what’s going on in the real world. Why don’t you consider that the next time you whine about there not being enough jobs in this state?
Ok, but in the meantime, those 50 people don’t have a job, and the social welfare system does not provide enough for them to live on. Many of them lost their jobs because of the wealth destroyed by high risk lending practices of the banks, thus ruining investment, putting hiring to a halt, and causing massive layoffs as expected revenue streams disappeared.
What should they do? Should they accept the foreclosure of their homes, their towering medical bills, their faultering marriages? Or should they demand that those millionaires who have destroyed our economy be responsible for ensuring that the jobless are able to make ends meet until we can figure out some satisfying ways to fix the economy?
Dear Occupy Cal Student:
Please tell us how your camping is going to save public education.
You are misguided.
Please tell us.
So what should we do when tuition is so high we need to drop out, so high that many are unable to attend, so high that we won’t be able to afford to pay back our loans, but college is the only way we won’t get stuck with endless credit card debt because we can’t get jobs if we’re not among the *most* qualified applicants? When politicians refuse to raise revenue for fear of electoral and corporate retribution, when they state won’t divert money from a prison system to an education system, when the prison system holds mostly drug dealers, who deal only because they can’t find a job that pays them enough to support themselves and their families, and who use only because their lives are so miserable, and once you start, it’s pretty fucking hard to stop?
What should we do?
Going camping with the homeless has accomplished nothing.
Prior to Occupy, almost no one was talking about why there are fewer and fewer jobs that pay enough to live on, yet more and more people with higher salaries than they know what to do with. These issues are now part of a national debate. If you think that 30 years of government deregulation of industry and retrenchment from social welfare, leading to the accumulation of massive amounts of money in the hands of the few, is going to disappear as soon as a movement begins to appear, you are out of your mind. If you think this movement has done nothing at all thus far, you are also out of your mind.
[If you think this movement has done nothing at all thus far, you are also out of your mind.]
You could not be more correct. It has led to an increase in crime and an increase in the number of rodents and unsanitary conditions.
Beyond that? Nothing at all.
An increase in crime and rodents? Do you have any proof of this? At all? Even a shred?
[Prior to Occupy, almost no one was talking about why there are fewer and fewer jobs that pay enough to live on]
Were you born yesterday or what? People have been complaining about that for decades now, so stop patting yourselves on the back as if you’re the first to discover it.
[yet more and more people with higher salaries than they know what to do with.]
Mere silliness on your part.
[If you think that 30 years of government deregulation of industry and retrenchment from social welfare]
So you’re saying to want MORE regulation of industry and MORE spending on social welfare programs? You mean like Europe, where people are rioting because they have been lulled into thinking that 32 hour work weeks, 8 weeks of paid vacation per year, and retirement at 60 when the population continues to age, suddenly find out their governments are broke and those politicians can’t keep the promises they made to get elected in the first place?
There’s another reason why anyone with a shred of common sense wants nothing to do with you Occupy folks. You have NO idea how many of the problems you are protesting where caused by actions you supported in the first place. Look at our own state of California, where the oh-so-self-righteous advocate unsustainable pensions for government employees, college tuition for illegal aliens, a high speed rail boondoggle, a legal and regulatory environment that drives businesses (and jobs) out of state, then wonder why California is broke, and has to raise tuition on college students. You can protest the effects all day and night, but until you develop a proper understanding of the CAUSES that led to the current fiscal debacle, all your yelling, screaming, and squatting in tents isn’t going to do a damn bit of good. Get a clue!
I will tell you exactly what you should do: Quit blaming others!!!
[When politicians refuse to raise revenue for fear of electoral and corporate retribution]
Politicians being afraid to raise taxes for fear of retribution is exactly what we want and need.
The state of California does NOT have a revenue problem. It has a SPENDING problem, thanks to people like you with an entitlement mentality who think the purpose of government is to take money from the productive and hand it out to others in exchange for votes. The politicians in this state (primarily Democrats, but there are plenty of Republicans who are just as guilty) have never learned any semblance of fiscal discipline, and spend money on stuff that is not only goes above and beyond the mandate of the state constitution, but competes with the same taxpayer money that pays for your undergraduate tuition. In other words, every spending bill, every appropriation passed in the state legislature and signed by the Governor is more money NOT spent on your education. Raising taxes will NOT solve the spending addiction, and in fact will merely drive off more of the working middle-class tax base you are counting on to pay for all of this.
There’s a reason why many Cal grads who were natives of this state have taken jobs outside of California. Maybe you should spend more time getting input from the successful ones on how the real world works, instead of the failures who never move on and become professional Berkeley activists because they are in fact unemployable and don’t have a clue.
What happens when college education is so expensive that you aren’t able to hire people with the skills to work for you?
You really don’t get it.
Good.
Do the 11 non-students realize that there are thousands of actual students on campus who are trying to study for midterms, do homework, go to class, etc..?
They may or may not realize it, but in all honesty, they really don’t care. These Occupy Cal types are a rather self-centered lot.
I don’t think they’re intentionally self-centered, but more that they /think/ they are going to change things when in reality camping around random places actually helps nobody.
Actually that is not true!
1) It isn’t random – for instance by being in front of the library we were bringing awareness to the fact that there is no 24/7 study space on campus. Had you approached us there we would have told you all about it.
2) It does help – the first week of the semester we occupied the Anthropology library and demanded that it’s hours to not be cut by nearly 50% which was successful! Look it up for yourself and go visit that library for yourself.
Begone, hippie.
There’s no need to approach you, I’m perfectly capable of finding information on my own, I already knew why you guys were camping in. However, “raising awareness” generally does very little. You need NUMBERS to get anything done – in fact the only reason that anything happened with Anthropology is that you had enough people to fill up a significant space of the library (not to mention there was already a significant portion of faculty supporting you, not the case with occupy as a whole). This is not possible for two reasons with Doe:
1) if you do it outside, you will never have enough people2) if you do it inside Doe, you will alienate anyone that actually wants to study in Doe, ie your entire support base
I stand by the fact that camping does nothing.
I appreciate your opinion and I’m glad we are now having a respectful, meaningful dialogue.
You are absolutely right about the need for numbers. Over 50 students which are heavily involved with our movement are now busy working with a coalition from all around the state on organizing the March 1-5 actions which are targeted at Sacramento in order to refund the educational system in California and uphold the educational master plan of this state which has been neglected for the past decades. So much of our attention and Base has gone to that cause at the moment.
At the encampment we had fliers and a ton of information which we were handing out to people regarding the march actions.
An encampment is a safe space for dialogue. It doesn’t matter who you are, what you do, or what your background is; at the encampment your opinion matters and is listened to. Hence, via the sharing of space, food, and other necessities a community is built which values tolerance and inclusion. In fact, it thrives on those facts.
Also, it didn’t help that many of the students who were continuously out there had gone home that night to take care of other stuff and prepare for midterms and what not. The Administration saw that opportunity and raided us while are numbers were at the lowest.
I want to hear your opinion on how we can be more effective so that we can achieve the goals of restoring public education.
Look, a tiny, continual presence doesn’t help, it hurts. People get the impression that the movement has somehow lost its backing just because we don’t all have the time to camp out in front of Sproul or Doe. PLEASE, let’s just organize meaningful, powerful marches and demonstrations. Occupations work for things like the anthro library, but when it comes to renovating our society and class structure you really gotta bring the power. Remember the 4k people who came out that one night that Reich spoke? Remember every single night that 20 people camped out on the steps of Sproul? Yeah…….
They can’t say they weren’t warned…
But they will. And they’ll complain about fascist police actions.