First of all, I would like to commend California for being the first state to pass a bill that will ban gay-conversion therapy for minors. Gay-conversion therapy, also known as reparative therapy, pray the gay away or ex-gay treatments, is therapy administered to people in order to change their sexual orientation or gender expression.
This bill will ban parents or guardians from putting their children through therapy which has shown to increase depression rates and suicides. Although homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM, in 1986, parents continue to pursue conversion therapy as a method of dealing with their child’s sexual orientation or gender expression. Whether this treatment is sought after because of phobia or ignorance of gender and sexuality is unclear. But what is clear is that these treatments are only a symptom of a larger disease affecting this country — a lack of education and concern for people with different sexualities or gender expressions.
Since 1986, homosexuality has been removed from being known as a psychological disorder. This means that therapists, guardians and parents who have continued to put their children through conversion therapy, which in some cases involve electroshock therapy, did so because either they believe they know more than the DSM and still believe homosexuality is a disorder, are protecting their children or are uncomfortable with homosexuality and want it gone. Yes, there are people with egos who believe they can cure anything. Yes, being homosexual in this country is still difficult, with higher rates of depression, suicides and homelessness. But more importantly, homosexuality is still perceived to be immoral. Because of this, minors across this country are being subjected to cruel punishment involving conversion therapy, which makes them feel lesser than what they really are, broken or sick.
What this bill will do is ban minors from being subjected to one form of institutionalized punishment. But what this bill will not do is protect minors from punishment inside the home. This bill will not magically make homosexuality moral. Parents and guardians will continue to see their child as broken, only now they will not be able to send them anywhere. There has been debate of whether or not this bill is interfering with parental rights over their children. To those people I say this. A parent or guardian does not have the right to subject his or her child to cruel and unusual punishment just because he or she feels that there is something wrong with his or herchild.
What this bill can do is open up productive conversations and alternative ways of parents and guardians’ interacting with their homosexual or gender-nonconforming children. If not, there are still social services to aid in this process. Furthermore, this bill can spark conversations as to why homosexuals and gender nonconformists are still being dehumanized in this so-called civilized country.
Although the acceptance, not tolerance, of homosexuality and gender nonconformists is still on the horizon, this bill is a step in the right direction. Not only does this bill shed light on a barbaric practice that has been going on under our noses — this bill can be used as a means of opening up the conversation of homosexuality to one that is not limited to gay marriage or don’t ask don’t tell policies. Now, a discussion of safety can be had. Now, a discussion of education can be had. It is now time to have these uncomfortable conversations. To look inward as to why we as a state and as a country have allowed these practices to go on for so long — and more importantly — to begin to imagine new, healthy ways of co-existing where difference is not seen as bad or wrong but is appreciated. California has taken this first step. It is now up to us to continue moving forward.
Felipe Flores is the board director of UC Berkeley Queer Alliance and Resource Center.
Contact the opinion desk at [email protected]
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http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/04/judge-orders-sex-change-operation-for-federal-prisoner/:
Ina first-of-its-kind ruling, a federal judge in Boston has
ordered Massachusetts authorities to provide a taxpayer-funded
sex-change operation for a transgender prisoner.
Chief U.S. District Judge Mark Wolf said he based his ruling on the
recommendations of doctors at the commonwealth’s Department of
Correction who prescribed sex-reassignment surgery as “the only form of
adequate medical care” for Michelle Kosilek.
Kosilek, who used to go by “Robert,” is serving life in prison
without the possibility of parole for the 1990 murder of his wife.
Judge Wolf, describing his 126-page order as “unprecedented,” said
that denying Kosilek the surgery was a violation of the Eighth
Amendment’s prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment.
Despite the hormone treatment and psychotherapy, Kosilek has
attempted to castrate himself and twice tried to commit suicide,
according to court documents.
What the fuck is this country coming to, catering to the sexual fetishes of gays, lesbians, and confused people like Kosilek?
Michelle Kosilek almost castrated herself because she was tortured by being a male. The judge made the correct ruling because it’d be “cruel and unusual punishment” if she continued having to be a man. Your transphobia is repulsive.
By that logic an insane convict trying to disembowel himself because he wants to grow two additional breasts on his back would have the right to a free boob job?
“Michelle Kosilek almost castrated herself because she was tortured by being a male.”
Sounds like “Michelle” needed professional psychiatric help, not a bunch of queer activists cheering him (yes, he’s a male) on.
[Michelle Kosilek almost castrated herself because she was tortured by being a male.]
You mean HIMSELF, right?
Homosexuality is not a threat to the future of this country, or the future of humanity for that matter. If you’re concerned about that, our lack of economical sustainability (spending more than you have) and ecological sustainability (using resources faster than they are renewed) should be at the top of your worry list. Gratuitous attacks on homosexuals show a lack of political and moral maturity.
I don’t care what adults do for fun, but taking away a parent’s right to educate a child is the first step towards George Orwell’s dystopia. Parents are already denied access to their children’s medical history after the child turns 12. If parents are not allowed to influence their sons to be masculine or their daughters to be feminine, then one day parents may not be allowed to serve wine at dinner, bake sugary snacks, or teach resistance to Big Brother doublethink.
What gay conversion followers are doing is child abuse. If a child who was wrongly born a male wants to be a female, then it’s his choice. If a 14-year-old girl has sexual attractions toward her female classmate, then it’s her decision. Parents cannot force their children to not be gay or to be cis because children are born that way.
Your blather about what parents might one day not be able to do is illogical. Look up “slippery slope” in the dictionary since you either haven’t heard of it or are deliberately ignoring it.
Nobody was “wrongly born” anything.
If a child wants to steal an iPod is it his choice? If a 14-year-old girl wants to cut her wrists is it her choice? The strenuous therapy to treat homicidal teens can be labeled “child abuse” by some, but no one argues against the therapy. So why is gay sex so sacred that no mental health professional is allowed to even discuss therapy? Even when the child wants to be cured? And you assume children are born gay or straight. Sometimes they worship a sports hero or authority figure like Jerry Sandusky and allow homosexual acts to be performed on them, then eventually engage in homosexual acts as well. Sometimes they suffer from other mental illnesses such as multiple personality disorder in which they obtain both male and female persona. Sometimes they are bisexual and just want to explore all the possible ways to have a good time. But now therapy is against the law.
And no, I’m not using a slippery slope argument because there is nothing to stop this progression of government intrusion into parent rights.
It’s interesting how politicized homosexuality has become. What if a boy has an unnatural sexual attraction to his mother, sister, or dog? Would psychologists be prohibited from treating that boy?
Shut up
Thanks for proving Calipenguin’s point, child.
That doesn’t help move the discussion forward. If you want people to accept you, then you need to allow people to explore the issue and find whether homosexuality is acceptable or not.
Bullshit. You’re wrong, wrong, wrong. Attraction between two consenting ADULTS is completely natural. Your discussion of other hypothetical situations is like comparing apples to oranges and reveals your disgusting homophobia.
You must not have read the article. We are talking about CHILDREN. Sex acts involving children are not only unnatural, they are illegal. Why are you defending a child’s desire to engage in illegal activity? You are disgusting and a poor spokesperson for the LGBT community.
Homosexuality isn’t about sex. It’s all about love.
The last time I checked the Constitution doesn’t forbid children from loving other children of the same sex.
You’re sounding more and more like some NAMBLA creep…
Homosexuality isn’t all about sex. Your equating sex acts to homosexuality is like saying heterosexuality should be forbidden because of illegal underage sex acts. This illogical statement reveals your deep ignorance of the gay community. Please tell me you’re not a Berkeley student because it would be very depressing if Cal has accepted such a narrow-minded, ignorant student.
I’m actually shocked that Cal has admitted a student like yourself who has trouble comprehending English. I never said anything about adults having gay sex. I kept my focus on conversion therapy for children because that’s what this article is about. Your analogy with heterosexual sex fails because underage sex between heterosexuals is also illegal. Children can love their parents, their god(s), their pet fish, and their Facebook friends but we don’t call that erotic love. It’s only when a child tries to engage in statutory rape that the parents contact mental health experts. But now it’s illegal to help that child if the object of his affection is another minor or adult of the same sex.
The problem is that science got way out ahead of the rest of society on this one, and it’s been painful (especially for those of us who are LGB) to watch it take decades for it to catch up. Once science understood that homosexuality is normal variation of human sexuality, about 40 years ago, the following things should have happened immediately:
1. All reparative therapy should have stopped, but it didn’t2. All schools, nationwide, should have included age-appropriate curriculum about homosexuality, but still almost none do3. All parents of LGBT children who actively try to change their children’s sexual identity should be charged with child abuse, and/or have the child removed from their home, but this has almost never happened despite the daily abuse that happens in millions of homes across the country.
These decades of inaction are a dark, irreparable stain on the psychological and educational professions that pride themselves on science-based, “research-based” policies and curricula. it not too late for young therapists and educators to take a stand and erase the sins of their elders.
” Once science understood that homosexuality is normal variation of human sexuality”
Sources and cites for your laughably silly assertion?
I’m sorry, Stan, I don’t have any sources or citations to support my assertion. If that was all you were looking for, I’m sure you would have tried Google a long time ago.
All I have is three decades of adulthood, during which I’ve known hundreds of thoughtful, loving, selfless, patriotic, forgiving, interesting, educated, and creative gay and lesbian people.
Were I to spend a moment to find some “sources and cites” for you I have a feeling it wouldn’t change your mind, Stan. If you’d met the people I’ve met along the way, though, I’m hopeful that their humanity would change your mind.You could change my mind the other way, if you can truthfully tell me that you’ve personally known hundreds of selfish, sex-obsessed, hedonistic, immature, untrustworthy, addicted, unstable gay and lesbian people. I’m confident you can’t, and the five or ten you might have met that do fit that description won’t cut it, since you’ll find those traits among more than a few heterosexuals, too.
I have no doubt all the gays and lesbians you know are wonderful people, but you didn’t catch the irony in Stan’s question. Saying that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexuality is like saying an acid is a normal variation of a base, or a fractional number is a normal variation of an integer. If you define something outside of a set as being a normal variation of everything inside that set, then you are intentionally conflating two mutually exclusive sets to confuse the issue. Alternatively, you can define all human sexuality as a continuum so that everyone is at least a little bit homosexual. In that case, you can’t use the term homosexuals since everyone is the same.
Are you one of those crazy Republicans who are opposed to homosexuality because “it’s a sin”? Well, guess what, no God worth worshiping would be against marital equality. We’re in the 21st century now. Don’t be one of those backwards people and support equality for all.
@df117f1e0b392956ab42105d45845a20:disqus : Are you one of those crazy Democrats who latch on to homosexuality because it gets you votes? I never mentioned religion but you had to bring it up as a straw man argument. Religion has nothing to do with set theory. Address the original topic if you can.
I firmly believe that teenagers should be free to explore their sexuality without being browbeaten by gay conversion therapy.
So why are you so against this? If not religion, then what? Are you spending too much time clinging to the words of the ugly homophobe Rick Santorum?
You said “I firmly believe that teenagers should be free to explore their sexuality without being browbeaten by gay conversion therapy.”
I disagree with you. Teens exploring their sexuality with other teens are committing statutory rape, and even if it were not illegal those teens’ actions are still the responsibility of their parents. But everyone does it, you might say. Fine, if their parents don’t care that they are having sex with boys, girls, dogs, and cats then no one else cares. But if their parents want to assert their rights as parents then the government should step aside. Parents have the right to raise their children under specific religions, with certain dress codes, under strenuous academic pressure, and without Internet access! But help their children overcome identity crisis or mental illness related to gender selection? No, Big Brother won’t allow that.
Get over it. Not everyone who disagrees with the militant homosexual agenda is a Republican or a religious fundamentalist. Some of us merely see through the inconsistencies and hypocrisy of militant gays.
So why do you oppose same-sex marriage if you’re not a crazy Republican or a right-wing religious nutter? All I can see is hate and jealousy and fear.
Narcissism in action. Everyone hates you because you’re so great. Yeah, right, whatever. Get a life, nobody “hates” or “fears” you. They are merely annoyed by your silliness and desire for constant attention.
It’s useless trying to argue with a few Republican homophobes on this forum. Their deep-seated fear and hatred of the gay and lesbian community blinds them from seeing the truth you have so eloquently stated.
I hope they will come to their senses when inevitably one of their children turns out to be a gay or lesbian.
“It’s useless trying to argue with a few Republican homophobes on this forum.”
Yep, everyone’s a “homophobe” when they disagree with you, right?
Why don’t you face the truth? You militant gays make all sorts of pseudo-scientific claims about homosexuality being “normal” that you can’t even back up.
Source again about homosexuality being normal so you can’t ignore it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339212/
You’re a homophobe if you have hateful opinions about gays or if you support discrimination and oppose marriage equality.
So yes, you’re a homophobe, as are virtually all your fellow right-wingers.
I have no “fear” of gays, so I’m not a homophobe. But nice try in distorting my statements when you can’t win based on facts or logic.
I doubt you’ve ever met a LGBT adult who wished he or she were “normal”. They claim if they had a choice, they would want to be heterosexuals with normal lives. If a mental health professional could have treated them when they were young and made a difference, why not allow it to happen? But now it’s illegal in California to even attempt to treat children with this condition. Some children may truly be homosexuals in which case the treatment would not work. But some may be suffering from identity crisis and could use the help of a psychologist.
Homosexuality is normal. See my source I posted above. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339212/.
The problem with gay-conversion therapy is that it abuses gay children by saying that homosexuality is not normal. This stigmatization is emotionally abusive and will thankfully be put to a stop by this law when Governor Jerry Brown signs it.
You are abusing the word “abuse”. Lots of things in childhood are emotionally traumatic. Watching a pet die is traumatic. Going through parents’ divorce is traumatic. Hearing one’s iPad shatter on the floor can elicit suicidal thoughts. Gay conversion therapy can involve something as benign as talking about one’s feelings, to something as severe as an exorcism. Outlawing all methods of intervention just because the patient wants to engage in gay sex seems silly, especially when the patients are too young to consent to sex.
> ” Once science understood that homosexuality is normal variation of human sexuality”
Sources and cites for your laughably silly assertion?
> “I’m sorry, Stan, I don’t have any sources or citations to support my assertion.”
That’s what I figured. Thanks for confirming what I already knew.
Here’s a source and some cites: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339212/.
“The shift in the understanding of homosexuality from sin, crime and
pathology to a normal variant of human sexuality occurred in the late 20th century.[1,2] The American Psychiatric Association, in 1973, and the World Health
Organisation, in 1992, officially accepted its normal variant status.
Many countries have since decriminalised homosexual behavior and some
have recognised same-sex civil unions and marriage.”
1. Sadock VA. Normal Human Sexuality and Sexual Dysfunctions. In: Sadock BJ, Sadock VA, Ruiz P, editors. Kaplan and Sadock’s Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry. 9th ed. Philadelphia: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins; 2009. pp. 2027–59.
2. Drescher
J, Byne WM. Homosexuality, Gay and Lesbian Identities and Homosexual
Behaviour. In: Sadock BJ, Sadock VA, Ruiz P, editors. Kaplan and Sadock’s Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry. 9th ed. Philadelphia: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins; 2009. pp. 2060–89.
But I’m sure you’ll ignore science as all right-wingers do.
“But I’m sure you’ll ignore science as all right-wingers do.”
Nutcakes who pretend that their XY chromosomes will magically turn to XX by dressing en femme are the ones ignoring science here.
Stan, it’s clear you’re one of the crazy Republicans who oppose marriage equality because of you’re afraid of gays and lesbians. Why can’t you open your eyes to the fact that gays and lesbians deserve marriage equality? We’re not harming anybody with our relationships. Gays and lesbians are always attacked with nasty homophobic slurs and many of the young in our community have killed themselves because of bullying.
What if you had a gay son or a lesbian daughter? Would you be so cruel, so heartless to reject them? I really hope not.
Look deeply into your heart and consult your brain. What’s wrong with gay and lesbian relationships? That is, how’s it hurting anybody? You can’t provide answer because there is no answer. It’s hurting nobody.
Gay marriage should be legalized because it’s the right thing to do and government should stop trying to meddle with our personal lives.
Try to stay on topic. Nobody said anything about gay marriage. We are talking about CHILDREN who think they are gay, and whether psychologists are allowed to treat them. First of all, how can any child know he or she is a homosexual? Most children never had a sexual encounter, and if they did it’s against the law. Children are treated by psychologists for a wide variety of reasons but the LGBT lobby has succeeded in excluding one particular area from treatment. Talk about that if you wish.
Children can have same-sex attractions (emotional, NOT sexual) to other children their age. You conservatives are always trying to make it into a sex issue when it’s not. It’s about love, pure and simple.
“First of all, how can any child know he or she is a homosexual?”
Good question. Let the child decide by him or herself without being thrown into a stressful environment. Let the child not be bullied into pretending to be a heterosexual. That’s emotionally abusive.
You said “Children can have same-sex attractions (emotional, NOT sexual) to other children their age.”
Yes, I agree, but we call that friendship, not homosexuality. Note the term “sex” in “homosexual”. We are talking about sex, not childhood emotions. But since you brought it up, how do you counsel a female child who falls in love with her teacher? You talk to her, explain that she’s too young, and let her emotions heal. For a gay child, this counseling is now illegal because the psychologist treating her could be accused of “conversion therapy”.
Love has many forms. The Greeks even came up with the terms eros, philia, and agape to differentiate those forms. Children who confuse love for parents, siblings, and friends with love for a sexual mate ought to be counseled. For a child who asserts he loves a same-sex child, this counseling is now illegal.
“Stan, it’s clear you’re one of the crazy Republicans who oppose marriage
equality because of you’re afraid of gays and lesbians.”
It’s clear that you are a bloviating ignoramus. For starters, I’m not even a Republican.Secondly, I’m not “afraid” of gays or lesbians whatsoever. I’m merely of the opinion that the claim that prohibition of same-sex marriage a human rights violation is based on emotion and sloppy logic. NOBODY has any “right” to marry anyone they want merely because they “love” them, and to claim that you’re being discriminated against merely because you can’t marry someone you love is ludicrous. Try thinking independently for a change, instead of accepting all the nonsensical crap shoveled your way by these militant loons. It just might do you some good.
“For starters, I’m not even a Republican.”
I’ve only known Republican homophobes. All the Democrats I know have been very open-minded. So if you’re not a Republican, what would you consider yourself as? I’ll add that group to my list of homophobic hate groups.
“NOBODY has any “right” to marry anyone they want merely because they
“love” them, and to claim that you’re being discriminated against merely
because you can’t marry someone you love is ludicrous.”
So are you against interracial marriage? Since you say that nobody has the right to marry anybody because of love, would you object if the law discriminated against heterosexual marriages? If you do, then you’re a hypocrite.
“Try thinking independently for a change, instead of accepting all the
nonsensical crap shoveled your way by these militant loons. It just
might do you some good.”
Try not to reject same-sex marriage because you are jealous of the love you see in gay unions.
“I’ve only known Republican homophobes.”
Maybe you should move out of your little left-wing ghetto and meet people in the real world instead.
Here’s your source, Stan the Homophobe. http://www.aglp.org/pages/cfactsheets.html#Anchor-Gay-14210
Is Homosexuality A Mental Disorder?
No. All major professional mental health organizations have
gone on record to affirm that homosexuality is not a mental disorder. In
1973 the American Psychiatric Association’s Board of Trustees removed
homosexuality from its official diagnostic manual, The Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Second Edition (DSM II). The
action was taken following a review of the scientific literature and
consultation with experts in the field. The experts found that
homosexuality does not meet the criteria to be considered a mental
illness.
I’m sure you’ll find an illogical reason to ignore this evidence from the American Psychiatric Association’s Board of Trustees simply because you are an unrepentant homophobe.
I hope you noticed that your link points out that science does not know why people are homosexual. The criteria that wasn’t met was distressing symptoms. Since homosexuals are not showing distressing symptoms, it is not considered a mental illness. That doesn’t mean it isn’t caused by psychological issues.
It has nothing to do with psychological issues. I have NO psychological issues, thank you very much. I was born gay and knew that from a very young age. Don’t make such offensive homophobic statements.
@e8e062b2b14d7efba333d8bdabde1ba3:disqus How could you possibly know at a young age you were gay? Did someone show you gay porn so that you understood the mechanics of sodomy? If you didn’t know about heterosexual intercourse how could you possibly know about homosexual intercourse?
“I was born gay and knew that from a very young age.”
How did you “know” you were gay? Come on, now…
You didn’t know from a very young age that you were born gay. You knew from a very young age that you were gay, but that doesn’t tell you how you became gay. The argument from some homosexuals that they were born gay because that is all they remember is completely unscientific and is not a logical argument. I am not homophobic, but you do seem to have a fear of science or knowledge.
“This bill will not magically make homosexuality moral.”
Correct.
Because it’s not.
Homsexuality is moral and accepted by the science community as natural. Are you another crazy Republican who fears and hates the gay and lesbian community?
“Homsexuality is moral and accepted by the science community as natural.”
Sounds like the same thing that was blathered by tomhenning elsewhere in this thread, and when I asked for sources and cites, he couldn’t produce them. I gather we won’t be seeing anything to support your claim either.
Source about homosexuality being considered normal so you can’t ignore it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339212/
Homosexuality is a disorder just like paedophilia is.
A STRAIGHT FORWARD OPINION CLEARLY STATED … COULD VERY WELL BE TRUE … FOOD FOR THOUGHT …
Both of you are WRONG. Ugly homophobes.
Thanks for reminding us of the intellectual bankruptcy of the militant pro-gay-marriage movement.
And thank you for reminding us of your heterosexual sense of entitlement, where you support heterosexual marriages but not homosexual ones. This blatant discrimination is by definition homophobia.
I don’t support homosexual marriages simply because no logical argument has been offered for their legalization.
Based on the reasoning that removed homosexuality from the list of mental disorders, pedophilia would be removed also. However, it won’t be removed, because of the criminal aspect. However, you won’t find psychiatrists having much more success at converting pedophiles than they do with homosexuals. Both have psychological roots that are pretty deep in the person’s mind.
So what do you think about homosexuality? Is it a mental disorder or is it normal?
You seem to be one of the more open-minded posters in this thread. Everyone else seems very strident and set on their ways.
I don’t believe it is either. It isn’t normal, because it is too rare, and it results in sexual practices that don’t match up with biology. This is the same reason I don’t consider many sexual fetishes normal. It isn’t a mental disorder, but it is most likely caused by a person’s psychology. You aren’t born with it and it isn’t a simple active choice. Kind of like many phobias.
Great response!
1) If homosexuality isn’t normal and isn’t a mental disorder but something caused by a person’s psychology, then are you implying that the person’s psychology can also rid itself of homosexuality or sexual fetishes (even if such removal would be nearly impossible)?
2) Do you consider homosexuality to be tantamount to a sexual fetish rather than something that is innate in a person? I think many gays and lesbians would disagree with that.
@7df72b7a7d0548f2a224a02d22f9477e:disqus @7df72b7a7d0548f2a224a02d22f9477e:disqusAllow me to jump in. If you ask someone with a sexual fetish he or she
will tell you that they can’t help how they feel, that they don’t get
turned on by normal sex, and that trying to rid them of their fetish is
pointless. They can still have intimate, loving relationships with
“normal” people but they won’t fight psychotherapy and they certainly
don’t try to prevent mental health professionals from treating children
with the same fetishes.
1) Anything that has some kind of psychological foundation can possibly be adjusted with psychological treatment. However, treatment might not be easy or show much change. My issue with the legislature’s bill is that politicians with next to no knowledge of medicine or psychology are deciding something than doctors should decide. Right now the psychological treatments for homosexuality don’t work well, but what happens a decade or two from now when treatments have advanced to a point where treatments are more effective? I would rather have the option that the medical world can treat when treatments are effective and safe. I would also rather have the homosexual person decide if they want treatment or not.
2) Since I said that I believe there is a psychological basis to homosexuality and that a person is not born homosexual, that means it isn’t innate. I expect that many homosexuals would disagree, but the science is on my side at this point. Even the Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists link above states that they don’t see an innate cause for homosexuality, and if the homosexual doctors don’t say it is innate, then other homosexuals shouldn’t either. If the science reveals something different in the future, then I have no problem changing my view.