City of Berkeley should seek alternate housing solutions

coloredited_mayakandell_oped031017
Maya Kandell/Staff

On a simple walk back from class, I notice something popping up along the Berkeley skyline almost daily. It towers over the buildings, its presence a friendly reminder of progress. The crane, which resides in construction sites across the city, casts a shadow over the sidewalk, the people and neighboring structures. While my roommate finds the metal machine captivating, its ominous shadow parallels the uncertainty I feel about what it is helping develop. Who will these buildings benefit? Who will have access to them? But beyond the questions of accessibility and use, there are other questions to consider. For example, what is the environmental cost of urbanization to the public? As a semi-permanent resident of Berkeley, over the past two years I have seen many buildings and roads get replaced and be built from the ground up, and for what? Yes, we need more student housing and “better” facilities for our growing academic departments. But do the social, ethical and environmental risks to the community really come second to building up Berkeley?

It is ironic that new housing plans — which would not only release contaminants into the air but would also be the source of land degradation and excessive waste production — are being made on the property of a university that facilitates and houses environmental activism and research. In a few years, the Oxford Tract, which is home to the Student Organic Garden and many Environmental Science, Policy, and Management (ESPM) labs, could become nothing but a memory of what environmentalism here at UC Berkeley stood for. On my walk back to my apartment, I pass the tract’s greenhouses and insectaries and consider the imminent possibility of losing facilities that aid environmental advancement to housing for students who will now lack the resources and space to pursue environmental research.

And while people in ESPM may be worried about losing their facilities, we have to consider that Berkeley is facing a housing crisis, a major problem that so far has had no clear solution. But could the solution be constructing more student housing on this lot? Some may argue that this could be a way of preventing UC Berkeley students from living in less than ideal conditions, in apartments that breed mold and are under constant threat of carbon monoxide poisoning or potentially in no home at all. I believe that the answer to this complex public health issue of housing cannot be resolved by putting university money in a project that would also put the environment and the citizens of Berkeley at more risk.

What are these risks you may ask, and why are they important in a city where so much construction is taking place? Construction produces extensive amounts of air pollutants such as carbon dioxide and nitrogen oxides that not only impact the air quality of a community (and therefore the health of its residents), but also contribute to smog production and climate change. While the actual act of construction can have harmful effects on communities, the health effects after buildings are constructed are also an important concern. Many buildings are still being constructed with materials that contain harmful toxicants such as volatile organic compounds and known carcinogens. While measures are being taken to improve the safety of building materials, there are still risks to human health that could be avoided by reducing construction with these resources or reducing construction in general.

So what alternatives do we have in Berkeley if we lack student housing and construction is already underway? Advocating for cheaper and healthier existing housing could solve a lot of the problems that we are facing, because many students live in unhealthy conditions or are homeless because of high rental prices. Being aware of where housing is being proposed and advocating for better construction practices can not only help reduce the incidences of conflict between groups with different interests but also reduce negative health outcomes due to construction. Finally, the best alternative would be to build smarter and collaborate with people working on sustainable development and housing — people in our own city planning department. With their expertise, we can come up with better solutions to our housing issue, such as altering existing student housing to accommodate more people efficiently. I believe that with these alternatives the health of Berkeley residents will not have to be put second to the expansion of our city.

Daniela Morales is a student at UC Berkeley. Contact the opinion desk at [email protected] or follow us on Twitter @dailycalopinion.

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  • disqdude

    This article does not acknowledge basic planning/development and economic concepts. I strongly suggest that you take a basic city planning course so you can better understand that the only realistic way to reduce a housing crisis and improve the environment in a growing urban area is to build more housing at a higher density. The only alternative is to force the population of said area to contract, either through population control or the redistribution of employment through relocation of a large percentage of the Bay Area’s businesses to metro areas with available capacity. Good luck with the alternative!

  • Victoria Fierce

    > For example, what is the environmental cost of urbanization to the public?

    The alternative to urbanization is suburban sprawl which consumes vast acres of undisturbed land. When housing is not built in Berkeley, that means some other far flung suburb needs to pick up the tab. It also means people need to commute further to their Berkeley jobs, producing more carbon emissions, being disconnected from their community fabric, spending already scarce money, and a whole slew of other problems.

    I’m finding it hard to believe that the author here has put more than a few seconds of thought into our housing shortage. If they did, they’d realize the solution to a housing shortage, just as with any other shortage, is to produce more housing. Thats the only thing Berkeley hasn’t tried yet.

    We’re not building enough housing, and rents continue to rise because Supply and Demand are very real and alive in Berkeley.

  • DragonflyBeach

    W-Wait, you live in an apartment? Why? I thought you were against density. So typical, you benefit from density development and burn the bridge down for others.

  • DragonflyBeach

    “And while people in ESPM may be worried about losing their facilities, we have to consider that Berkeley is facing a housing crisis, a major problem that so far has had no clear solution. ”
    You need to start with step 1 and question A) What is a Housing Crisis Determined by B) Why is they’re a housing crisis. Because if you don’t understand that a Housing Crisis is a Housing Shortage, there’s no point in discussing solutions without proper diagnosis. Housing in an old 70’s apartment in Berkeley costs $2000+ a month because there’s people moving in, and Berkeley hasn’t built housing for 40 years. They just started again amid the worst housing crisis in Bay Area history.

    Go live in flyover country if big buildings scare you. And I imagine you never travel or look at San Francisco.

  • DragonflyBeach

    ” For example, what is the environmental cost of urbanization to the public?”
    New condos are far less harmful to the environment with their green energy standards than the single family homes that are $1 million dollars and are filled with mercury, decaying wood and lead.

  • justiceplease

    What I advocate for is banning AirBNB so students can rent rooms throughout the community again, and landlords will stop threatening to rip out the kitchens from their granny flats just to make sure they only qualify for AirBNB.

    While the University certainly needs more dorms, both the City and the University need to recognize that Cal is an International magnet for graduate students. Many graduate students are coming back to school after life as working adults. Many grad students have families. They need working adult housing and family housing. These grad students couldn’t afford new apartments in Berkeley even before the housing crisis: their fellowships and GSI/Research pay couldn’t reach those rents. They need their own form of subsidized housing.

    I strongly believe that students flourish in nonprofit coops, where they pay the rent to cover maintenance, share in the chores, and enjoy the convivial life of group dining and common spaces.

    When students go into these coops and into the rooms that were hijacked by AirBNB, apartments will free up for middle income adults.

    I also think coops are good solution for independent-living seniors. These seniors will maintain a good social life, integrated with the community, if they live in coops. There can be a guest house where relatives can come to stay, so the seniors can live in smaller, easy to maintain, apartments. They can also have gardens and other public amenities in coop spaces. Daycare centers should be located next to these coops and next to Senior Centers so seniors can enjoy the spirit of children.

    Such coops will allow seniors to age in place in Berkeley even after they sell their house to some incoming young family. Again, if seniors don’t go into apartments after they sell their house, that frees those apartments for working adults. Young adults often want apartments in large buildings: I think they imagine these have the same social life as dorms did in college, and such building are part of their fantasy “urban scape” – a lifestyle that fits their developing self-image. Because of this, I think it would be wise to include a lot of common/entertainment spaces in such buildings with bars/coffee houses on the first floor so young people can hook up. ;)

    There is a fight over who gets to benefit from Transit-Oriented Development. Seniors, disabled people, and other vulnerable populations *need* facilitated access to public transit. Young singles are busy and lazy and sometimes can’t afford a car yet (they greenwash this problem by claiming their bicycles make them low carbon footprint heroes): they demand the Transit-Oriented units, and in the tech bubble region they have the money to outbid the poor people on fixed incomes. IMHO, it’s poor planning to give in to BARFer tantrums. I hope the City will focus planning around reducing displacement rather than catering to spoiled kids. Put the “young single adult” apartment buildings a little further away, and improve the reliability and frequency of buses (or, better yet, local shuttles and bicycle rickshaws).

    Many groups in the City are working to bring more consistency and equity to the General Plan and zoning in Berkeley. I encourage students to join and work with these groups. The prominence of a student who ran for Mayor and the District 4 Council Seat has provided some free advertising for BARF’s libertarian/Machiavellian ideologies. It’s tempting for students to follow anyone who blows a horn about “housing”. In the end, however, it’s the needs of the residents of Berkeley, not an arbitrary ideology, that will guide planning in this City. Students can empower themselves by getting involved in the real deal rather than following the Pied Piper in the BARF t-shirt.

    • Victoria Fierce

      > What I advocate for is banning AirBNB

      Why do you never advocate for building more housing to end the shortage? Why don’t you advocate to raise your own taxes to help pay for the affordable housing we need?

      • justiceplease

        Why are you making claims for what I do and do not advocate for without any evident knowledge about the subject? I’ve advocated for various existing developments in Berkeley, including one market-rate one downtown. I advocate to build on the North Berkeley BART station parking lot and on the East parking lot of the Ashby BART parking lot.

        I’ve also never argued against taxes, and I’m voted for the affordable housing measures during the last election. Of course, I’m not a property owner, so those aren’t going to particularly affect me.

        If BARFers want to get anywhere, you need to start participating in the community conversation instead of spewing random attacks at everyone.

        • Victoria Fierce

          So are you going to take out a mortgage on your million dollar single family home and donate it to the Berkeley Affordable Housing Trust Fund?

          Send me a receipt when you do and I’ll respect you.

          • justiceplease

            lol, now I’m wondering who you are mistaking me for.

            I’m a disabled tenant who pays 100% of my fixed income toward my rent. This is what I meant about BARFers just carpet-bombing random insults hoping one will stick.

          • DragonflyBeach

            Which honestly makes it worse, as I’ve said. You benefited from development and then you cut the bridge for others, while defending million-dollar homeowners in the city.
            Plus BARFers come to Council Meetings all the time, so I don’t see how they’re not participating.

          • justiceplease

            How am I cutting the bridge? We’re creating a model for the community benefits process and working on a community benefits overlay as a patch while more equitable policies can work their way through the City (and, hopefully the State – but its obvious Big Developers have way too much influence there).

            BARFers are welcome to come to City Council meetings, but their presence there will always be perceived as distorting, corrupt, “manufactured consent” until they learn to work with their own communities as well. By “working with their own communities”, I don’t mean going to other cities to infiltrate neighborhood meetings that are supposed to be gathering community input: I mean becoming active in their *own* communities. By my calculations, 3-4 active BARF/East Bay Forward members live in South Berkeley, but they aren’t the ones showing up at their own local meetings. Sadly, I think it’s because they are bothered by how much respect elderly community members (who have earned that respect through their actions over time), and they feel entitled to that level of respect instantly because they (ostensibly) represent the millennial demographic.

          • DragonflyBeach

            You’re cutting the bridge by being a hypocrite that benefited from market-rate housing when it was built, and now actively fights against new market-rate housing. If you were a private property owner I could at least understand such obtuse reasoning as you have property values to protect.

            Perceived as corrupt by whom? The anti-development crowd that has already made up its mind? Plus, out-of-towners commenting isn’t infiltrating anything. The Bay Area is a region, there’s no wall blocking one city from another. What one city does to not build housing for new residents affects adjacent cities as well, that’s exactly why the housing crisis exists.

            “represent the millennial demographic.”
            I don’t know how you arbitrarily measure respect, i tend not to respect those who actively snide at young people who are forced to live with the consequences of a generation that was given cheap housing amid a urban exodus, and actively wants their employment but not their residence. That’s Berkeley Daily Planet level idiocy, and shouldn’t really be running anything.

            As I’ve asked you before: What has Friends of Adeline done to make housing more affordable or created more housing? (I mean for everyone, not just housing they’re passing down for their kids.)

          • justiceplease

            Taking community benefits from market rate development is a very poor second choice for me. I’d rather support nonprofit development, land trust models, coops, etc. The problem with the market urbanists is they can’t see past libertarian supply-side economics.

            I support development projects that I think are good for Berkeley. I don’t support ones that are bad for Berkeley. If you go around supporting bad projects and then claiming others are “against all housing”, you will sow dishonesty and reap mistrust.

          • lspanker

            Taking community benefits from market rate development is a very poor second choice for me. I’d rather support nonprofit development, land trust models, coops, etc.

            Wonderful – now tell us who’s going to come along and give you all that money to do as you please? Or are you so caught up in your rainbows-and-unicorns worldview that any concessions to reality are in your mind akin to making deals with the Devil incarnate?

            You’re obviously one of the slower holdovers from the 1960’s, as the smarter ones figured out that sitting around and smoking dope while listening to the Greatful Dead do a 3-hour version of “Uncle John’s Farm” might have made them feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but wasn’t getting s–t done. Money doesn’t grow on trees, and the type of people who have the money and resources to get things done don’t do it for free, nor is there any moral or legal obligation to put up with a permitting/ reviewing process that takes longer than the entire Apollo space program or some Superfund cleanup project because it’s subject to veto by any homeless derelict, junior Trotskyite, or crazy geriatric cat-lady types who never held a real job in their entire live showing up at some public meeting.

            The reason s–t can’t ever get done in Berkeley is because of people like you who constantly p–s and moan about their situation but won’t ever do anything on their own to improve their own lot, because in THEIR mind, somebody else owes them…

          • justiceplease

            You don’t even live in California. You’re obsession with Berkeley seems very strange.

            Also, I wasn’t even born in the 60s. Perhaps you are thinking of someone else?

          • lspanker

            You don’t even live in California.

            Yes, I do – I’m in the South Bay, because that’s where housing is available, and when I need to go into the city, I can at least find a place to park @ the Millbrae BART/Caltrain station – but even if I lived on the freaking Moon, that doesn’t invalidate a single thing I have to say.

            Also, I wasn’t even born in the 60s.

            I dunno if you were born earlier or later (I suspect earlier) but I saw the 1960’s in Berkeley up close as a kid, and I can’t say I was especially impressed…

          • justiceplease

            You are lying about where you live. You’ve said a little too much on Berkeleyside, lol.

          • lspanker

            You are lying about where you live.

            No, I am not. Prove otherwise.

          • justiceplease

            You live in Albany, NY. Now you prove otherwise.

          • lspanker

            I do? Based on what?

          • justiceplease

            Think about it. ;)

          • lspanker

            I have no idea what you are talking about. Let’s see some proof, otherwise we’ll know you’re smoking your own undershorts as usual.

          • justiceplease

            Let’s see some proof from you that you’re in California.

          • lspanker

            OK, I’m near the Shoreline Amphitheater and Moffett Field. If I can post some evidence of that for you, will you apologize for being a complete fool?

          • justiceplease

            I wouldn’t want you to post private information about yourself, and frankly I wouldn’t care where you’re from since you’re interloping in Berkeley business no matter what.

            Either you are from Albany or you are a liar. I’m not even curious to know which is which. You should decide who you need to prove stuff to and send your proof to them.

          • lspanker

            You don’t need to post anything private. Just take me up on my offer. Are you game?

          • justiceplease

            I thought *you* were the one offering to post private information to “prove” your location: though, I wouldn’t believe it anyway since I’m confident in what you gave away before.

            So, you don’t need to “prove” anything to me. I’m not asking for it. But if you do feel the need to prove stuff to other people, I’d advise you to convey that proof privately. But if you do want to start posting random personal information about yourself, go ahead – I’m not stopping you. After all, that’s how I know you are in Albany. ;)

          • lspanker

            I don’t need to offer private info, I will do it quite publicly for everyone here to see. Once again, $100 bet I can prove I am here in California. Come on, I know you’re poor, and could use the $100, AND you say you have proof. I will post it here and we will let the reader judge. Are you game? YES or NO, do you take the bet?

          • lspanker

            Hmm, awfully quite all of a sudden. Yes or no, do you take the bet?

          • justiceplease

            I’m not interested in any bet. If you have the need to prove you *aren’t* in Albany to anyone, then it’s up to you to do that.

          • lspanker

            I’m not interested in any bet.

            Because you know you will lose, right? :O)

            If you have the need to prove you *aren’t* in Albany

            And if I’m right and you’re wrong, do you agree to apologize and admit you’re just full of that smelly brown stuff?

          • justiceplease

            I don’t have to bet anything. I believe you are in Albany. If you want me to believe otherwise, then you are the one that would have to prove it.

          • lspanker
          • lspanker
          • lspanker

            Now what was this proof you had that I’m not in California again? :O)

          • justiceplease

            lol, you crack me up. Anyone can get those photos and photoshop little pictures of the Daily Cal on them. Also, at the start of this thread you claimed you lived in the “South Bay”, not a few steps away from Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley.

            So, again, I believe the earlier proof you live in Albany, NY. But if anyone else wants to believe your photoshopped pictures, thy are welcome to.

          • lspanker

            “lol, you crack me up. Anyone can get those photos and photoshop little pictures of the Daily Cal on them. “

            ROTFLOMAO!!! And anyone would come up with the content as well?

            http://www.sarensol.com/Spanked.png

            Also, at the start of this thread you claimed you lived in the “South Bay”, not a few steps away from Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley.

            Yes, but that wasn’t the claim we were discussing. It was your comments yesterday:
            You don’t even live in California. (about 5:30PM yesterday)
            Let’s see some proof from you that you’re in California.(about 7:30 PM yesterday)

            But if anyone else wants to believe your photoshopped pictures

            I have offered far more proof than you have of me supposedly being in Albany, NY (how exactly did you come to that conclusion again?) You believe, you’re just afraid to admit it. Wait here’s more:

            http://www.sarensol.com/SpankedDC2.png
            http://www.sarensol.com/SpankedDC4.png

            But that’s OK. Pretend what you want. Everyone here knows that you’re full of s—t, have always been full of s–t, and will always BE full of s–t.

          • justiceplease

            Yes, anyone with a friend in Berkeley or access to a photo repository could come up with those photos. And your photoshoped “fake news” shows who the troll is. ;)

            Dude, you changed your statement about where you live just within this thread.

            Also, I think you said once – though I could be mis-remembering this – that you “used” to live in Berkeley around 10 years ago. So pictures could be from then.

            Ps. While you were abusing me for not having a job, it seems that you can spend a workday posting here. Does this mean posting rightwing comments is your job…?

          • lspanker

            LOL! Wow, you’re like the Baghdad Bob of Berkeley. No WONDER nobody believes you! :O)

          • justiceplease

            It’s amusing that you think you speak for “everybody”.

          • lspanker

            OK, give me the name of one regular credible poster that will come out and agree with you when you start spewing your silliness. Even the other liberals will have nothing to do with you because of the completely unfounded, outrageous comments you make one a regular basis.

          • justiceplease

            I’m not going to call people out. I’m already irritated that you’ve made a big thing over where you really live.
            If you want to see who agrees with me, just mouse over the number when I’m up-voted.

          • lspanker

            I’m not going to call people out.

            Because you can’t, and it’s not your style to ever back up anything you post, correct?

            I’m already irritated that you’ve made a big thing over where you really live.

            Oh, POOR BABY. YOU were the one who brought it up and made an issue about it in the first place!

            Here’s your little problem. You put your fingers in motion before your brain could catch up, made another ludicrous claim you couldn’t back up, and got spanked for it in public. You pick fights online all the time, then get upset and play the victim when you lose them. Sorry you’re such a slow learner again…

            If you want to see who agrees with me, just mouse over the number when I’m up-voted.

            When was the last time that happened again? LOL!

          • justiceplease

            Well I have over 1500 upvotes on Disqus, so it seems that *somebody* agrees with me, lol.
            But I wouldn’t expect anyone to up-vote a personal aside like this.
            By the way, what’s your obsession with spanking?

          • lspanker

            Well I have over 1500 upvotes on Disqus

            How many do you have when you subtract the upvotes you used to give yourself before you got called on it? That’s why you lock your profile right, so nobody can look at those older posts and see that about 90% of those “upvotes” were your own?

          • justiceplease

            Wow, do you collect my comments? I think the only time I’ve ever upvoted myself was when I was first trying to figure out how to use Disqus. So that was…maybe 10?
            I lock my profile because people like to stalk, like you’re trying to do now.

          • lspanker

            What you laughably label as “stalking” is what others call RESEARCH. Unlike you, I don’t make accusatory claims about others unless I have some solid proof to back my position. OTOH, you throw all sorts of nonsense against the wall, hoping some will stick, then whine and whimper like you’re some sort of victim when you get called on it. Really now, your passive-aggressive behavior in this respect is getting rather old…

          • justiceplease

            Why do you even feel the need to “research” me? Why do you care?

          • lspanker

            I have NO interest in researching ANY personal aspect of your life, I’m only interested in dealing with comments you make directed at me as well as others, particularly your penchant of accusing people of lying and/or malicious intent/behavior when you have no proof to back up what you post. Unlike you, some of us prefer to deal in the realm of facts.

          • justiceplease

            You will need to provide evidence of me lying about pertinent comments on the article (the dispute over where you live doesn’t count). Also, another comment you made about “Crookitelli” makes it clear that you are confusing me with another Berkeleyside commenter.
            Regarding maliciousness – you’re in no position to be criticizing anyone. That’s why I spin things out to let you go on and on: everyone can see your character, and thus take your comments in context of that.
            Please do go on about the “spanking”.

          • lspanker

            You will need to provide evidence of me lying about pertinent comments on the article (the dispute over where you live doesn’t count).

            It certainly mattered big-time to you BEFORE I proved you wrong, didn’t it? :O)

          • justiceplease

            What are you talking about? When did it matter to me? How have you “proven” me wrong?
            Nothing you say matters to me because it’s all rightwing propaganda and personal attacks. As I said before, I just respond to you to give you more opportunities to hang yourself.
            Though, actually, I hope the Daily Cal will clean up this entire thread later since it has nothing to do with the article.

          • lspanker

            I’m sure you do, but your comments and the pictures will be archived elsewhere inline, as to remind everyone that you’re an outright liar and a kook.

          • lspanker

            While you were abusing me for not having a job, it seems that you can spend a workday posting here.

            Ever hear of “working from home”? I have 2 laptops and 1 desktop up and running, so I can test my work on 3 different OS’s and 3 different browsers. See, If you develop something on a Win 7 Pro system for Firefox, it’s nice to be able to double-check to see that what you did don’t crash on Win 10 Home running Chrome. Not that I would expect you to understand anything about front-end coding of apps…

          • justiceplease

            So are you “working” by posting rightwing comments or not? Why are you using up your “work at home” time here?

          • lspanker

            Because in this case I’m paid by the job and if I want to take a break for an hour or so to eat something and get my mind off work, I have the right to do it.I guess this concept of taking a break in the middle of the day is unusual to you – in my world, we call it “lunch”…

          • justiceplease

            Sure you have the right to comment. And so do I. So stop jackhammering on useless things that don’t even relate to the article posted.

          • lspanker

            Also, I think you said once – though I could be mis-remembering this – that you “used” to live in Berkeley around 10 years ago. So pictures could be from then.

            Well, it COULD be from 10 years ago, which would make it March 2007. I guess the fact that (a) you didn’t even have a Disqus account under the name of “justiceplease” until 5 September 2014, (b) the “Reality” character from South Park make his first appearance in Season 19, Episode 5 (21 October 2015), and that the picture references comments YOU just made LAST NIGHT (Albany, NY? LOL!) might suggest otherwise. Better keep your day job as an unemployable – you would make a lousy detective.

          • justiceplease

            I’m not doing any detective work at all, and I wouldn’t mention anything you didn’t put out there. It seems, on the other hand, you’ve been busy doing detective work for some reason. I don’t see what how long I’ve used the justiceplease account has to do with anything. I don’t watch South Park.
            Now you’re saying the pictures *could* be from 10 years ago? So how do they “prove” you live in Berkeley now? Combined with the fact you were claiming to be in the South Bay at the top of the thread, the only thing that’s been “proven” here is that you lie about where you are. Normally that wouldn’t matter at all (why have an anonymous handle on Disqus unless you want to remain anonymous), but you try to throw your weight around Berkeley as if your opinion matters. IMHO, if you don’t live here, your opinion carries very little weight.

          • lspanker

            I’m not doing any detective work at all,

            No duh – in fact, you’re completely the opposite. You just make s**t up whenever you feel like it, with NO regard or concern for whether it’s even the truth.

            I don’t see what how long I’ve used the justiceplease account has to do with anything.

            You suggested that those were photos I took 10 years ago, when I allegedly “lived in Berkeley” (a claim I didn’t even make). Once again, how would I have responded on Disqus in 2007 to anything you said then, when Disqus wasn’t even released until October of that year, and you didn’t even have an account until 7 years later?

            Combined with the fact you were claiming to be in the South Bay at the top of the thread, the only thing that’s been “proven” here is that you lie about where you are.

            What did I “lie” about again? I claimed to live in the South Bay (which IS in California, FWIW). YOU claimed I wasn’t even in California last night, and couldn’t offer any proof to back up your claims. I WAS in Berkeley last night, and backed it up with photographic evidence. However, since you’re such a clearly pathetic human being, you can’t even ADMIT to bring wrong even ONCE, can you?

            but you try to throw your weight around Berkeley as if your opinion matters.

            Does YOURS? Come on now, I know I state a lot of opinions that people disagree with, but at least I can post stuff of fact and substance to support my views. All YOU post is ludicrous nonsense, making wild accusations about people’s motives and intentions without a SHRED of evidence to back them up. And yet you have the nerve to call OTHER people “trolls”?

          • justiceplease

            No, you are the one who said you lived in Berkeley 10 years ago, and you are the one who said you lived in Albany, and you are the one who said you lived in the South Bay. No detective work required – I’m just going by what you say.
            You’re the only one trolling here with your relentless need to insult people. How have I ever insulted you (unless you regard being called “rightwing” an insult)?
            Also, I don’t pick fights, and I don’t care about “winning” and “losing”. I just string things along so other people can reveal their personality. It helps put their comments in context. ;)

          • lspanker

            No, you are the one who said you lived in Berkeley 10 years ago

            Sources and cites? I NEVER made such a claim, nor can you prove it. As per your usual MO, you just make up BS out of thin air.

            and you are the one who said you lived in Albany

            WHERE did I say that? Once again, sources and cites, otherwise its just more bullsh*t from you.

            I’m just going by what you say.

            Cites? Of course, you have none…

            You’re the only one trolling here with your relentless need to insult people.

            That’s a laugh. YOU’RE the biggest troll in Berkeley! You LIE and insult people ALL THE TIME (“Crookitelli”, insinuating that developers lie and commit criminal acts, that there are clandestine KKK types infiltrating BUSD, Trump supporters acting as agent provocateurs and that there was no violence by the anti-Milo demonstrators) making wild accusation that you have NO intention of backing up. Yet, when somebody calls you on it and posts the TRUTH, you claim to be “insulted” and cry like a baby as if people are picking on you for no reason at all.

            As far me, I NEVER said that I was perfect, but YOU have some SERIOUS psychological issues you need to deal with before you EVER accuse ANYONE ELSE of being a troll around here. Comprende?

            Also, I don’t pick fights, and I don’t care about “winning” and “losing”.

            Then why do you need to LIE all the time? You clearly don’t care about the TRUTH, do you?

          • justiceplease

            Well your first comment in this thread is your claim you live in the South Bay. That’s how this got started. I have no idea when you said you lived in Berkeley 10 years ago – that’s why I said I’m not sure if I remember that correctly. The Albany claim was about 2 years ago: don’t expect me to search for it. Anyway, that’s the one I believe, so why does it matter?

            Also, you’re mixing me up with someone else. There’s another person on Berkeleyside that came up with the “Crookitelli” thing. Justiceplease is my only disqus account, but I’ve been confused with at least 2 other people on Berkeleyside. Oh wait, no wonder you’re imagining that I’m the only person who disagrees with you. You think everyone who disagrees with you is my sockpuppet! Well, sorry to disappoint. You’re just wrong there.

            By “agent provocateurs”, I was probably referring to masked vandals who try to make protests look bad: just calling those what they are. Regarding BUSD: there are a couple of people who are always complaining about black students from Oakland, to the point of stalking their Facebook accounts. While I might have compared that activity to the KKK, I don’t think I’ve ever called someone “KKK” in response to their comments. Same thing with “alt-right trolls”. So anyone is free to compare my comments to the type of things you say and draw their own conclusions.

          • lspanker

            Well your first comment in this thread is your claim you live in the South Bay.

            Because I DO live in the South Bay.

            The Albany claim was about 2 years ago: don’t expect me to search for it

            Yet you were clucking like some hen that just laid an egg like you had some type of smoking gun evidence. OK, I got it now, it was just your usual lying BS, correct?

            Anyway, that’s the one I believe, so why does it matter?

            Yep, your typical attitude. It’s what you want to believe, so why should the facts matter?

          • justiceplease

            The “proof” you submitted (pictures that could have been taken by anyone at any time) were of Berkeley, not the South Bay. But again, I don’t care, because I’m confident you live in Albany, NY.

          • lspanker

            The “proof” you submitted (pictures that could have been taken by anyone at any time)

            So who exactly do think took those pictures again, and when?

            were of Berkeley, not the South Bay.

            No duh… the city limits sign is on the north side of College just before Alcatraz just before the street widens up there. Know how I know that? :O)

          • justiceplease

            A) Anyone could have taken those pictures. You also showed your photoshop skills by adding the troll text.

            B) You may have lived in Berkeley 10 years ago, as you previously stated. I’ve been taking the things you said at face value. Also that’s the only way to make your South Bay claims consistent with your Berkeley pictures.

          • lspanker

            Anyone could have taken those pictures.

            With that specific content, and if somebody else took them, how did I manage to post them here?

            You also showed your photoshop skills by adding the troll text.

            Are you really that stupid? Please explain how this one was photoshopped:

            http://www.sarensol.com/SpankedCityLimits.png

            or this one…

            http://www.sarensol.com/SpankedSproul2.png

            You know, reading your posts is like watching Monty Python’s “Dead Parrot” sketch. You will say just about anything to avoid dealing with the truth.

          • justiceplease

            Dude, I don’t have to prove anything to you. You’re the one who revealed your in Albany. If you’re not, that just means you have a propensity to lie about where you are, lol.

            I also don’t need to bet anything. Do what you want if you feel you have anything to prove.

          • lspanker

            Dude, I don’t have to prove anything to you.

            Of course not, because you just make up nonsense all the time, right?

            Your the one who revealed your in Albany.

            Really now. Where did I say that? Sources and cites, please. Otherwise you’re lying as usual.

          • justiceplease

            I’m not going to save you the work. You find it if you care that much.

          • lspanker

            I’m not going to save you the work. You find it if you care that much.

            In other words, it’s the usual bulls–t you just make up all the time – but we knew that already… :O)

          • justiceplease

            I wonder how I got the idea that out of all places, *Albany* is exactly where you live…;)

          • lspanker

            I can hear the crickets chirping…

          • lspanker

            Hmm, look who got so quiet all of a sudden… LOL!

          • justiceplease

            I was watching a good movie. :-p It’s not like we’re talking on the phone.

          • lspanker

            I see you turned down my offer. How about if I make it 2:1 odds and you only need to pay me $50 when you lose?

          • justiceplease

            lol. Keep your money and post your “proof” if you need to. I don’t need it, though.

          • lspanker

            How am I cutting the bridge? We’re creating a model for the community benefits process and working on a community benefits overlay as a patch

            And how much of it are YOU willing to pay for it?

            Come on, you already admit your poor, so you’re probably paying next to nothing in taxes, and sucking off the government teat as it is. Meanwhile, the rest of us – people who ARE working, ARE paying taxes, and not trying to disrupt everything that comes along – are the ones who wind up paying high rents because you’re way too ignorant (and too stubborn to learn) that just because YOU don’t acknowledge the fundamental economic laws of Supply and Demand, doesn’t make them go away.

            And as far as you being “poor”, I’m sorry to hear that, but whose fault is that but anyone but yourself. By all evidence that you offer here with your blathering posts, the reason you are poor is because you are clearly one ignorant human being. Now whether it’s because you’re just plain stupid and incapable of learning, or too stubborn and caught up in your silly 1960’s hippy-dippy worldview and incapable of learning, is anyone’s guess. But guess what? That’s nobody’s fault but your own.

          • justiceplease

            When I work, I pay taxes. I don’t believe people become worthless when they aren’t doing what you want them to do.

            As for blather: you’re hanging yourself on your own petard.

          • lspanker

            When I work, I pay taxes.

            When did you last work again?

          • justiceplease

            Your questions are getting very personal. Are you stalking me?

          • lspanker

            Don’t flatter yourself. I have no interest in you save for rebutting your nutty ideas when I see them posted online.

          • justiceplease

            Your numerous comments around me say otherwise. Or do you just have a crush on me?

          • lspanker

            I’m a disabled tenant who pays 100% of my fixed income toward my rent.

            If you’re disabled and (presumably) not working, why don’t you relocate yourself to some part of the state where the cost of living is far cheaper?

          • justiceplease

            Because I’ve lived in Berkeley for decades. My community ties are here. State and Federal resources that I need access to are here. University resources are here. Who are you to order me to move just because I’m poor?

          • lspanker

            Who are you to try to sandbag and undermine other people who want housing here? OK, you’re a permanent leech – we all understand that much. However, your selfish desire to have the best of both worlds at the expense of others (and even yours, if you were smart enough to realize it) only drives up housing for everyone else.

          • justiceplease

            Sorry, I don’t believe people are superior to me just because they have more money. Go peddle your plutocratic ideology to someone else.

          • lspanker

            You mean you don’t believe people are superior to you just because they produce something useful that others will gladly pay them for, correct? I have NEVER said that it’s only about how much money you make, but I DO believe one’s worth IS about whether your presence on the planet is a net benefit overall. You aren’t out there getting housing built, far from it. You’re trying to stop every project that comes along that doesn’t conform to your childish tra-la-la vision of how the world should work. A project that will benefit 48+ middle class working people and their families, and a couple of poor ones as well, doesn’t get your approval because 8 more people don’t get subsidized housing – so instead of 2 poor folks benefiting, NOBODY gets to benefit. It would be comical except for the fact that clueless twits like you are actually making housing more EXPENSIVE for just about EVERYONE in the long run.

          • justiceplease

            Who made you the Supreme Evaluator of Net Benefit?

            Also, you seem to just be riffing off of Victoria Fierce. You have no idea what I do in regard to housing.

          • lspanker

            Who made you the Supreme Evaluator of Net Benefit?

            Who made YOU? You’re the one who runs around questioning the motives and intentions of anyone trying to actually get anything done. Insinuating that some developer is affiliated with the Russian Mafia is the type of nonsensical [email protected] you post when you can’t win over anyone with logic or reason.

          • justiceplease

            You might want to do your own research on that.

          • lspanker

            If you got proof, show it here, otherwise I don’t waste my time with every nutso conspiracy concocted by every online kook and his brother. Your M.O. is quite clear – you make all sorts on allegations and insinuations but are never able to back them up with facts.

          • justiceplease

            Where did I say they were Russian mafia? I might end up swimming with the fishes for making a comment like that. ;)

  • lspanker

    Sad to see what once was one of the greatest public institutes of higher education in the world, reduced to churning out the intellectual equivalent of paranoid 3-year olds.

  • iamdink

    maybe we should dig 20 stories into the ground so we can remove your fear of ominous shadows

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